Fundamental Game Playing Strategy

We all have to start somewhere. 

In all honesty, that's a very tough question to answer.  Even experienced players get stumped from time to time.  Oh, sure, with 20/20 hindsight you can always pick out what you should have done differently, but in the heat the moment everyone has to make though decisions, and even the best of us can make wrong ones. 

One good idea is to stay one step (or two or three) ahead of the game.  Think about what you're going to do next so you have your long-term plan laid out, and perhaps have a head-start on it.

It shouldn't surprise you that every situation is unique.  Sometimes you attack, sometimes you defend, sometimes you seek out more planets that are further away, and sometimes you build up a powerhouse economy.  It all depends on the situation the map provides and what your opponents are doing.

In any case, on to the problem at hand: you're having trouble because of counter-attacks.  Yes, this is the price of attacking: you are vulnerable to a counter-attack.  I think I'll start by stating the obvious: if you're fighting two fleets of equal strength to your own, don't expect to win.  If you have two flanks that are sufficiently distanced, and the enemies on both sides are attacking you (and don't have their own flanks to worry about) then you basically have no other option but to defend.  It's a simple matter that you're in a 2v1 scenario, and you're out-gunned.  Find cover.

Now, it's entirely feasible to juggle your assets to fight two wars at once against two powerful fleets, but typically this is either a late-game phenomenon where your empire is that much stronger, or else you're a much better player than those opponents.  The AI isn't very good at attacking starbases, so if you find a nice choke point and set up a starbase there with repair bays, it will probably repel just about anything the AI sends at it while your fleet is free to attack the other front.

Keeping track of everything is tough, but it needs to be done.  That will come with time.

Hey and welcome to sins. I am also farely new so my advice may not be helpful as others.

Firstly its my opinion that scouting is very important especially before attacking an enemy. it can also alert you to which of your oppenents is drawing close to you. I think its partially important to micro scouts at one point but especially so if your playing vasari so you can capture neutrals.

If your having trouble protecting outer planets maybe your expanding too fast. U should try to ensure previous planets are atleast partially defended before moving on.

Later in the game if your having trouble protecting all your outer planets try placing hangers (especially for advent) and repair bays. Also for advent i find it a good idea to sometimes leave a few carriers at outer planets. while since i mostly play vasari i am never more than 1 jump away so while these hangers wont repel a fleet but will stall till reinforcements arrive and i am sure the same can be done with starbases.

as a side note if u try hangers ad carriers to defend for stall its always best to have them all target the capship if ur fighting AI cuz the ai sometimes retreats jus because it lost its cap.

again i hope this helps in some way

If its a small map, expand fast and do your best to intercept the enemy as early as possible its imperative that you atleast cripple him early on. That way you can get your actual Offensive Fleet on a standing leg and hold your own.

If its a medium to large map, its usually best to turtle out. Absorb a good amount of planets into your canopy and then build up defenses on your frontline worlds. Once you have a good defensive net to atleast slow your enemy down and stall them til your fleet can intercept and route the enemy fleet.  Move on to reinforcing the planets that begin leading back to your homeworld. If they are able to break through your defenses you want them to be slowed down as much as possible while you prepare a proper counter.

If my enemy is in another system my first goal is to establish fortifications at my star. This wont stop the enemy completely and ships will still make it through. But it will keep them far from your homeworld. Once I fortify my star with Three offensive StarBases and One Trade oriented StarBase I then expand to the remaining planets in the system heavily fortifying my planets that lead directly to the star and the planets adjacent to those planets. Ill usually drop a StarBase in those planets that are the most heavily fortified as to give them the power to repel any wannabe assaults without having to divert my Fleet(s). Usually Ill leave a Fleet in the Stars gravitywell and move my other Fleet into a position to commondere my enemies Star with Starbases, again three offensive Starbases and one tradeoriented so that i can use the distance to make good money off of it. At that point I have the staging point to jump my defensive fleet in and go on the offensive. If your playing the AI usually its pretty demoralized at this point and even on hard it will only muster up enough fighting force to annoy you til you force it to surrender.

If anything you always have to keep in mind what the Enemy will do to counter your move.  If you decide to assault a planet on the far left of the system. what will the enemy do to repel you? does it waste its time and resources by sending its fleet to the besieged planet or does it assault the far right of your frontline and force you to divert your fleet? You always have to consider what the enemy may or may not do. Its just apart of the game. You need to decide what is the best option and what the enemy is likely to do. Using scouts will give you a better idea of what the enemy will likely do to counter you. If his fleet is close enough to jump into the besieged planet it most likely will or might just assault the nearest planet. If its across the system it will most likely hit the nearest planet you own. What I like to do is split my fleet into two. And will leapfrog that allows me to divert a fleet if needed without completely giving up the assault. This way I route the countering fleet while still taking the targeted planet.

Thanks for your help! For scouting, do you think that it's necessary to constantly be scouting the whole map, or just parts where a fleet decision relies on what's happening at a few planets? For example, I just played a game on a random medium map, with 30ish planets. Should I be scouting the planets on the far side, or just the few border ones? Also, a related question, for that map with 30ish planets, how many scouts would you have out at any one moment?

On a side note, the Kortul's self-healing ability is really strong! The AI put a lvl 5 Kortul (probably fully developed that ability) against a fully upgraded Advent starbase (max weapons, max technology upgrades, max meteor, max disorientation), and it was winning! The Kortul's shields remained at 50%, going down to 40%, then back up to 50% after it used the ability. The starbase was slowly losing health, and I'm pretty sure that if I'd just let it be, it would have destroyed the starbase. But a few destras and illums did the job. Still, that was surprising. :/

initially you should just let the scouts take themselves where they want, just to get an idea of where the enemy is in general, as guiding them will be too much micro in the beginning to get anything useful accomplished. once you get an idea where your enemy is located then its best to start using your scouts more actively to purge the enemies lines and really get an idea of what he has in his cluster. if anything you should have a constant stream of scouts moving out giving them orders to specific planets in the enemies clusters (just keep 1 eye on them to make sure if they die your replacing them) scouts are great because of how cheap they can be (atleast for tec) which means you can get them out there very fast. with about 30 worlds, as long as you know where your enemy is and where hes amassing his fleet (a hint at where hes planning on branching out at) you shouldnt need more then say 20ish scouts on a constant basis, just continue ordering them directly to key points in the enemies cluster worlds and replace those that were lost. Just count on the scouts to die and order 4-5 scouts to the same point. so say your enemy has 4-5 front line worlds youll have 4-5 convoys of scouts penetrating each frontline world and once into the Frontline Enemy GW will proceed to a key planet(s) behind enemy lines. Atleast this is how I utilize my scouts, but i use them in intervals where I only send out those scouts constantly for 10 minutes every 10-15 minutes depending on how active my enemy is.

Wow, that's one area I definitely need to work on. I usually have at max 5 scouts going, and I often forget to replace them. I tried to micro scouts soon after I got Sins, but I always forgot to command them, and they always died, and I gave up on it.

I'm not totally clear on how you control your scouts. First, what is a cluster, and what does GW stand for? Do you send about 4-5 to each border planet and then have each scout branch out to another adjacent world?

Thanks

You can focus on what's important.  However, it's a good idea to be proactive and consider what might be important.  I like leaving "scapegoat" scouts a few jumps away from borders (in empty gravity wells, of course) as an early warning against enemies who are trying to sneak around. 

Okay, this requires some clarification.  First of all, scouts aren't only good for scouting.  Many players, including myself, use them as combat units.  They're cheap and easy to make in bulk, and very effective at killing enemy scouts, colony frigates, siege frigates, and long range frigates.  So, with that in mind I sometimes have 30 or 40 scouts because I'm using them as combat units.  Then there are Vasari who use their scouts to steal neutral extractors.

Secondly, not every unit that is scouting is a scout.  Sometimes you will use (either through necessity or convenience) flak frigates or light frigates.  These are relatively cheap and tough, and for many cases make better scouts if you might run into the enemy fleet (because they have a better chance of getting out alive). 

With that in mind, I'll usually have 4-6 scouts that are scouting during the early game on a map of approximately that size, and later on my scouting will become sporadic.  I will periodically look at locations I haven't checked out recently.  Sometimes I'll try to send a scout deep into enemy territory to get an idea of their assets.  In this case, I'll often have several scouts on standby at various locations to do these occasional scouting missions.

Gravity well.

GW stands for gravity well. And there are many diff scouting strats it all depends on how fast you expand, the size of the map, and how fast your enemy expanded. Four Advent and TEC scouts are cheap have a low supply and can be made in enough numbers to scout the whole map in the beginning(i find five to enough in maps where pirate bases are not key gravity well in which u may need to make plenty)on auto explore. With vasari atleast for me i make 5 scouts and jus try to keep them alive through micro explore using shift move. when i come to neutrals i do the same to avoid nuetral enemies then take extractors and continue micro to next planet.

While this is slower on large maps it has advantages. the above works in teams where you can depend on their ships vision. 1v1 i send 2 scouts auto and micro 3.

o and quick edit vasari scouts have little combat ability but with a Kortul who needs it

They're the weakest of the three scouts, but by no means worthless.  This is particularly true if you have lots of neutrals you can capture.

So a good counter to LRF or siege frigate spam and is both fighters and scouts? I'd heard about using scouts as combat units, but I'd completely forgotten.

I've seen the AI doing this sometimes, but I've never felt a need to do so. The only situation I can think of would be getting past a heavily strike-craft defended planet. But I'll think about using it more in games.

ok, thanks.

An unrelated question: I'm currently being double (and sometimes triple) teamed by hard AI. They're spamming mostly siege frigates, and throwing in a couple of light frigates. In between attacks on me, do you recommend attacking anyone (to keep them on the defensive), or putting down more defenses, instead of just using ships as defense (I currently only have about two hangar defenses per border planet, with ranging amounts of ships).

Thanks!

Correct.

That's one of the cases, when I need to get past strike craft to scout something deeper in enemy territory.  The other is when I need to "look before I leap" but I don't have a scout on hand and certainly cannot afford to wait for one.  In these cases I will send in a cheap combat unit just to see that I'm not jumping into a starbase or a PJI.

The AI has a bad habit of ganging up on the player (particularly when teams are unlocked). 

If three or more AI's are attacking you, you'll probably need to throw down some starbases to hold them off.  As I've already said, you can't hope to go on the offensive if you're outgunned and fighting a two (or three) front war.  It is feasible, but your enemies are likely to try to attack you while you're vulnerable.  A well-placed starbase can cover for you so you can focus on attacking.

Awesome! Thanks everybody!

If teams are unlocked against AI there is gamble stratedgy i use. If u expand very slowly so that u dont see any AI ships before your first missions come in the first missions will be to give credits or resources. if u have enough resources you make one of the AI  teams your ally and focus on its missions. then maybe you can turn the AI on its self.

the gamble is if if u go slow hard AI expand fast so if u dont get a good enough diplomatic stand you may find yourself locked out of the game unless you can properly defend the few worlds you have.

But hey ruling the galaxy always gamble

Something that has worked out very well for me is that i set myself a small group of planets usually around my homeworld to capture. the border planets being either choke points or next to uncolonizable territory/pirate bases so the enemy has to make more than one phase jump to reach you. Then have your fleet in the center of these few border planets so you can reach each planet quickly. And always get a few repair bays covering your buildings and each other to buy yourself time to defend. If youre in a 2 or 3 front situation try to send pirates to one of the attackers and focus your own attacks on the other one. Expand in one direction and keep yourself covered by allies or pirates in the other direction.

These are all good advice, and from seasoned players.  All i can really offer is as soon as the game starts, get 5+ scouts moving and keep realative control so they spider out properly and give you a good layout, that way, while you build up your fleet, you can decide where the core of your wmpire will reach.  Usually, you are looking for a choke point, or what sometimes becomes 2 or even 3 chokepoint worlds, where you will lay down the bulk of your defenses.  Preferably, if you have more than one chokepoint, they will be connected so you can move your fleet between them easily.

As to the rest, respond to enemy movement, keep on the defensive until you have researched that special something you have been saving to totally throw them off balance.  (Just a suggestion.  50% chance of failure, due to their own wild card move...)

That last bit is theory, as i rarely if ever play online.

-Exile Ascendant

Lamest thread necro yet

Dang it...Maybe i should look at more than the date on the last post...

-Exile Ascendant

I've been getting raped playing the AI 1v1 on small maps at 1 or 2 difficulties above normal.  I've been playing TEC.  I just can't seem to counter his fleet.  I have not been using starbases at all, it that my error?

I've been getting raped playing the AI 1v1 on small maps at 1 or 2 difficulties above normal.  I've been playing TEC.  I just can't seem to counter his fleet.  I have not been using starbases at all, it that my error?

1. Dont be exposed to enemy especially if your fleet is out far (keep fleet together duh)

2. wreck the enemy any way you can.

i don't have a strategy for ai rushes, they ususally do something stoopid like splitting their fleet. or letting my capital ship spam at them.  

let them attack your planetary turrets and pick the small ships off quick with a group of 13 or so assault frigs.