[MOD] Maelstrom [Trinity | Rebellion] » Forum Post by soase-maelstrom

Maelstrom is available for D, E and O.

*giggle* I love simple sarcasm.

Glad you picked it!

But seriously, I think Kenshirou has seen some exceptional modeling work for mods now and to come.

I have worked from the direction I play. When I am playing I rarely go and look at the battles and models, I play from the Galaxy view, jumping from planet to planet to do my stuff. Hence the UI is more important to me. The models and effects are last on my list to do/improve.

the real chore is texturing not so much making or finding people to make models

Too true.

btw: I have no problems with the BSG models from Coxxon, they are good quality and fit the Trade Alliance scenario quite nicely.

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

I have worked from the direction I play. When I am playing I rarely go and look at the battles and models, I play from the Galaxy view, jumping from planet to planet to do my stuff. Hence the UI is more important to me. The models and effects are last on my list to do/improve.

I tend to play a mix of both. Zoomed in for micro'ing targets and zoomed out for empire control. It's one reason I tried really hard to make good main view icons for all my ships for both the empire tree and orbit body wells. I also helped make several main view icons for the not yet released update to the BSG mod. Mods are just better if they have the proper UI changes. I would really like to see UI huds that are race specific. I know it's just gravy but the TEC look for all races gets a little bland overtime.

btw: I have no problems with the BSG models from Coxxon, they are good quality and fit the Trade Alliance scenario quite nicely.

It's your mod so all that really matters if you are happy with the end result. I try to keep it in perspective that "it's just a mod for a game".

But seriously, I think Kenshirou has seen some exceptional modeling work for mods now and to come.

I agree, even if he doesn't realize it yet himself.

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

So, I'm working on some capial ship diversification based on the current game so I can add in Dreadnaught type capitlships to my mod too. As a starter I've played around with just the three core races to see what might work. I posted the stat changes in the Zombie's mod yard for reference.

Basically though, I'm considering gimping the dreadnaught type class (I called them fortress due to lack of imagination at the time) by removing any ability to Bombard planets. The fortress class ship will have have good all around defense and the best hull armor but will have less forward damage output than the modified battleship. It's abilities though are kind of scary as they are currently baed off the starbase abilities (although less powerful). My stat changes may be a little extreme but It's always bothered me how little difference there is between a battleship and support ship in terms of damage output. I've also thought battleships and siege capitals shoud be on par per fleet suppy to heavies and lrm's.

I've played it a few times now and I don't feel compelled to only build the Fortress class as the other capital ships are kinda scary now too. I'm not sure if they are too powerful or not or if starting militia is just to weak (but I can colonize just about any planet without the mod with two labs and a colony cap ship, so it's probably militia for me).

Just an FYI for you to look at and ponder.

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I tend to play a mix of both. Zoomed in for micro'ing targets and zoomed out for empire control.

What targets do you typically zoom into? I'm not particularly interested in close-in fleet battles as I haven't got weapon controls like say the game 'Sword of the Stars'.

Mods are just better if they have the proper UI changes. I would really like to see UI huds that are race specific. I know it's just gravy but the TEC look for all races gets a little bland overtime.

I agree. Personally I don't think it is 'gravy', with good huds (research and buttons), good main view icons and race voices it makes a mod distinct from the original game.

I try to keep it in perspective that "it's just a mod for a game".

Good thought.

I've played it a few times now and I don't feel compelled to only build the Fortress class as the other capital ships are kinda scary now too. I'm not sure if they are too powerful or not or if starting militia is just to weak (but I can colonize just about any planet without the mod with two labs and a colony cap ship, so it's probably militia for me).

Just an FYI for you to look at and ponder.

The militia is pretty weak from the start. You could dump up there numbers to balance your new caps, or added different types (you have all the tec frigates and caps to choose from), or add some 'dangerous asteroids' to irritate.

What we have found with Dreadnoughts is that by making them super-powered (x4 normal cap) it's impossible to balance the AI's use/manufacture of them. As they are interesting, and as a work around, I spawn them for every race once every 1/2hr from a one-per-game/one-per-race dread factory. As you can appreciate there are many other options like making all caps (including Dreads) to be 'roughly' the same 'power' ... as you have done. But I like a super-powered Dread to scare the .... out of the opposition and take on a reasonably sized starbase.

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

I agree. Personally I don't think it is 'gravy', with good huds (research and buttons), good main view icons and race voices it makes a mod distinct from the original game.

I was thinking specifically of the windows and overlays all having the Tec look and feel. I agree though it's a bare minimum to have good research buttons, icons and voices to make the race distinct. I'm nearly there with the Plague race, just need to finish the structure models and add in the voices (already have the script layed out).

What targets do you typically zoom into? I'm not particularly interested in close-in fleet battles as I haven't got weapon controls like say the game 'Sword of the Stars'.

I play online too occasionally so it helps to micro select targets to reducing the amount of turning a ship has to do to engage. Controlling battles from the empire tree may send your fleets to areas you didn't intend.

As you can appreciate there are many other options like making all caps (including Dreads) to be 'roughly' the same 'power' ... as you have done

Actually this is specifically what I changed as unmodded sins has all capital ships about the same which means only abilities separate them. I moved the stats up or down quite a bit based on role type.

What we have found with Dreadnoughts is that by making them super-powered (x4 normal cap) it's impossible to balance the AI's use/manufacture of them

Yep, I've read all the posts in this regard and didn't want to have the same issues. My goal is to make the AI atleast function as well as it can. In general I made battleships 4x stronger with weapon damage, gave support capitals more AM, gave siege capitals 3x more sieging power, and gave carrier capitals slightly more squads (Tec gets 1/2/3 turrets per level plus an additional squad), colony capitals got small tweaks. My fortress will be a mix between a battleship and support ship with no sieging abilities to make up for the increased stats.

In short I was intrigued by you approach for Dreadnaughts and wanted to implement a similar concept in my mods and am using your lessons learned as a guide. My primary concern is replayability and diversity with capital ships. I don't personally want to have all Dreadnaughts using my capital ship slots. My approach atleast in my mind provides incintives to the human player to build other classes of capital ships.

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I was thinking specifically of the windows and overlays all having the Tec look and feel. I agree though it's a bare minimum to have good research buttons, icons and voices to make the race distinct. I'm nearly there with the Plague race, just need to finish the structure models and add in the voices (already have the script layed out).

Look forward to seeing your work.

Yep, I've read all the posts in this regard and didn't want to have the same issues. My goal is to make the AI atleast function as well as it can. In general I made battleships 4x stronger with weapon damage, gave support capitals more AM, gave siege capitals 3x more sieging power, and gave carrier capitals slightly more squads (Tec gets 1/2/3 turrets per level plus an additional squad), colony capitals got small tweaks. My fortress will be a mix between a battleship and support ship with no sieging abilities to make up for the increased stats.

My approach is change the original races as little as possible. However I can see that you have made things more interesting and realistic. Wouldn't you have to re-balance your frigates somewhat so that you can counteract your caps ... as you know the AI only builds a couple of caps so a human player could gain an advantage by building a lot more caps than an AI player? (Haven't looked at your stat changes yet)

In short I was intrigued by you approach for Dreadnaughts and wanted to implement a similar concept in my mods and am using your lessons learned as a guide. My primary concern is replayability and diversity with capital ships. I don't personally want to have all Dreadnaughts using my capital ship slots. My approach atleast in my mind provides incintives to the human player to build other classes of capital ships.

For the dreads to take up all cap slots (16) would take 8 hours currently ... now that's turtling.

Yes the incentives to build other caps is chiefly in there unique abilities.

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

Look forward to seeing your work.

Thanks, modders unite! or something like that.

My approach is change the original races as little as possible. However I can see that you have made things more interesting and realistic. Wouldn't you have to re-balance your frigates somewhat so that you can counteract your caps ... as you know the AI only builds a couple of caps so a human player could gain an advantage by building a lot more caps than an AI player? (Haven't looked at your stat changes yet)

From my tests the AI will build 5-6 capital ships and lots of frigates. Even with increased stats unsupported capital ships die pretty quickly (just takes 50% longer . Though I don't play very long games personally.

My core mod focus is to change the original races as little as possible too, which is why I can stack my mod so many different ways. I may add this as a stacking option for those that like tough capital ships. I'm still tweaking stats, but I like the end result so far and the AI seems to do pretty well with the capital ships. It just seems more fun to have a capital battleship that can actually kill something and siege capital that actual does better at sieging than a carrier.

For my main mod the Fortress/Dreadnaught class will be more durable than the battleship and with good all around damage but unable to bomb. I've seen the AI build 1-2 of the fortress/dreadnaught class pretty consistently. Not having bombing is a real deterant to loading up on these things as you have to build something to siege with.

For the dreads to take up all cap slots (16) would take 8 hours currently ... now that's turtling.

Yes the incentives to build other caps is chiefly in there unique abilities.

True, I don't usually go to 16 capital ships though

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Thanks, modders unite! or something like that.[/quote]

Nothing wrong with that!

From my tests the AI will build 5-6 capital ships and lots of frigates. Even with increased stats unsupported capital ships die pretty quickly (just takes 50% longer

Yes something which I mostly see. Quiet_Man has noted that even with huge resources the AI spends its money on frigates and research ... and send caps on 'suicide' missions.

My core mod focus is to change the original races as little as possible too, which is why I can stack my mod so many different ways.

Its a good idea.

I may add this as a stacking option for those that like tough capital ships.

Yes I have also split D & E versions of Maelstrom into Expansions taking out 'dangerous asteroids', new pirates and dreads from the base mods and placing them into the Expansion.

[quoteIt just seems more fun to have a capital battleship that can actually kill something and siege capital that actual does better at sieging than a carrier.

I know what you mean.

For my main mod the Fortress/Dreadnaught class will be more durable than the battleship and with good all around damage but unable to bomb. I've seen the AI build 1-2 of the fortress/dreadnaught class pretty consistently.

Out of 6 caps the chances are good for 1 at least.

Not having bombing is a real deterant to loading up on these things as you have to build something to siege with.

Another good idea.

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I'm playing a little the Norlamins. I find them very slow at the start. The alliance has powerful ships at start and the crators get quick bonuses on minerals. The norlmanins research has many levels for small bonuses. Once you get through they are quite good, but I haven't found a strategy for an early on encounter other than the ship steal ability.

What do you think about reducing the number of research levels or cost for the early build & production bonuses?

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Hi Quiet_Man,

I'm playing a little the Norlamins. I find them very slow at the start. The alliance has powerful ships at start and the crators get quick bonuses on minerals. The norlmanins research has many levels for small bonuses.

Reply #574
Reply #570

The above replies follow your feedback, later in the game they suggest the Norlamins and Cators make up for lost ground. Personally I have rarely seen the Cators lead the packs.

Also others have claimed that with the Norlmains you only have to research the first 3 tiers to gain the advantage.

What do you think about reducing the number of research levels or cost for the early build & production bonuses?

I think that the original races should be the balance reference point, i.e reduce the TA and Cators advantages.

As you may of noticed I am slowing balancing the new races with each new release ... slowly, slowly.

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Whenever I play, I almost always max out my capitol ships before making any real moves.

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Would I be correct in saying that you are playing

Maelstrom for Entrenchment, v1.051, release 3 Beta (added 4/12/2010)?

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Quoting soase-maelstrom,

reply 710

Hi Quiet_Man,

I'm playing a little the Norlamins. I find them very slow at the start. The alliance has powerful ships at start and the crators get quick bonuses on minerals. The norlmanins research has many levels for small bonuses.
Reply #574
Reply #570

The above replies follow your feedback, later in the game they suggest the Norlamins and Cators make up for lost ground. Personally I have rarely seen the Cators lead the packs.

Also others have claimed that with the Norlmains you only have to research the first 3 tiers to gain the advantage.

What do you think about reducing the number of research levels or cost for the early build & production bonuses?
I think that the original races should be the balance reference point, i.e reduce the TA and Cators advantages.

As you may of noticed I am slowing balancing the new races with each new release ... slowly, slowly.

yes, after their first 3 tiers, but each tier has many levels with each level having only a small advantage. But you are right. The impression comes from playing many times alliance and cators. The original races are also "slower".

I recognized many small changes, like the trade ports for alliance taking 4 slots like other races. I see this a little sad, it also reduces the differences between races. I wonder if there is no better way for balancing? Giving the a disadvantage instead of reducing the original bonus?

The Norlamins are powerful after lots of research. Maybe give alliance back the 2 slot trade port and heavily reduce mining? The cators are strong at mining but have no trade at all. Maybe move the heavy mining bounus a bit back in research?

Another idea is to just forget about balancing. Most people play against AI at all, which does not care

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I recognized many small changes, like the trade ports for alliance taking 4 slots like other races. I see this a little sad, it also reduces the differences between races. I wonder if there is no better way for balancing? Giving the a disadvantage instead of reducing the original bonus?

Actually the TA's tradeport has a baseIncomeRate twice that of other races and twice as many trade ships, i.e same as always but you don't have to build two structures. In fact it is now cheaper!

Just finishing testing on release 3 and here are the change notes ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Graphics
- TradeAlliance: fixed missing UI crusier button for TA - Diplomacy
- All: updated build UI icons (capital, cruisers, frigates) for new races

Gameplay
- TradeAlliance: bomber/fighter can all fire
- TradeAlliance: capital carrier firing corrected
- Norlamins: cosmic ray collector now has planetary shield ability
- General: 'Dangerous Asteroids' collide with one another, mitlia and pirates
- General: Original Sins Maelstrom mod no longer crashes on exit - number of unique texture files reduced

Balance
- TradeAlliance: light frigate slot count increased from 5 to 6
- TradeAlliance: reduced number of strike craft for ability "Strike Force" for Carriers and Capitals
- Norlamins: backed off shield mitigation in culture and shield mitigation research.
- Replicators: back off research. maximum level for any research area is 2.
- All: reduced scouts firepower for all new races
- General: reduced number of mines for E & D, Stars have max of 100 mines, Planets 50, Home Planets 150.
- General: reduced trade bonus for "Planet of Legend"

Research
- Replicators: added research for Cybernetics Factory
- Replicators: added research for Nanite Plant
- Replicators: added research for Orbital Cannon
- Replicators: added research for Antimatter Recharger

Bugfix
- General: 'Dangerous Asteroids' do damage on collisions
- General: some particle impact effects fixed
- TradeAlliance: Diplomacy ... Starbases no longer move
- Norlamins: Diplomacy ... Starbases no longer move

Models
- All: 42 new orbital structures with new hud, mainview, info, picture icons.
- All: Dreadnoughts included for 6 races, new models for the original races
- All: Dreadnought Factory included for 6 races, new models for all races
- Replicators: added Antimodule cruisers for Replicators
- Replicators: added Orbital Cannon Structure for Replicators
- Replicators: added Orbital Antimatter Recharger Structure for Replicators
- Replicators: added Orbital Cybernetics Factory Structure for Replicators
- Replicators: added Orbital Nanite Plant Structure for Replicators
- Replicators: deleted Orbital Production Factory for Replicators
- Replicators: Added Trade ship for Replicators
- Replicators: Added Refinery ship for Replicators
- Norlamins: Deleted Orbital Planetary Shield for Norlamins
- Norlamins: added Antimodule cruisers for Norlamins
- TradeAlliance: bomber/fighter tangents fixed
- General: Reworked Planet Ancients
- General: Reworked Planet Fortified

Optimization
- General: textures for planet modules optimized
- General: sound files sizes further optimized

Other
- General: spelling and grammar fixes

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also for each version of Maelstrom (O, E & D) there is a expansion mod. The expansion has 'Dangerous Asteroids', advanced pirates and Dreadnoughts whereas the standard mod does not.

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"just finished testing" Does it mean you have now a list of fixes to do or just preparing for release?

sorry, I couldn't hesitate any more to ask

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All 12 files (standard+expansion in zip and 7-zip ) for release 3 are uploaded to the Maelstrom website.

Just capturing and updating images for the website.

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Maelstrom release 3 is available ... see links above.

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OH DAYUM!!!! THE ALLIANCE IS SO MUCH BETTER!!!!! LOVE THE NEW STRUCTURES!!

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Great, for me a clear O

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Release 3 for diplomacy is giving me crc errors while trying to test / extract with winrar (tried both the rar and 7zip mirrors).

\Maelstrom_Diplomacy_Expansion_1.011_3.zip: CRC failed in Maelstrom R3\Sound\Battle 4.ogg. The file is corrupt
Maelstrom_Diplomacy_Expansion_1.011_3.zip: CRC failed in Maelstrom R3\Sound\CapitalShip_Colony_OnSelected_2_Norlamins.ogg. The file is corrupt
\Maelstrom_Diplomacy_Expansion_1.011_3.zip: The archive is corrupt
\Maelstrom_Diplomacy_Expansion_1.011_3.zip: CRC failed in Maelstrom R3\Textures\Buttons_Research_CursorOver_Norlamins.dds. The file is corrupt
\Downloads\Maelstrom_Diplomacy_Expansion_1.011_3.zip: CRC failed in Maelstrom R3\Textures\CapitalShip_Carrier_Norlamins-cl.dds. The file is corrupt
\Maelstrom_Diplomacy_Expansion_1.011_3.zip: CRC failed in Maelstrom R3\Textures\Starbase_Saucer_Replicators-nm.dds. The file is corrupt

Since I'm 99.9% sure that it isn't my computer, maybe some more people can try it out.

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ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009

+340

Release 3 for diplomacy is giving me crc errors while trying to test / extract with winrar (tried both the rar and 7zip mirrors).

The 7zip for diplomacy expansion is giving similar errors for myself. I'm trying the zip version now.

Edit- the zip didn't work for myself either.

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seams also the O version, tried both zip and 7z have errors

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Sorry guys and thanks for the feedback.

I'll check it out. Using new FTP client software.

It takes a hell-of-a-lot of time to upload all the files (12) and though I normally test them individually (download them again) this time I didn't.

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OH DAYUM!!!! THE ALLIANCE IS SO MUCH BETTER!!!!! LOVE THE NEW STRUCTURES!!

Spotted those particle effects problems you noticed in R2 which were fixed for R3.

Thanks again.

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Filezilla (FTP client) corrupted uploads for most of release 3 files.

Re-uploading files now ... will make download links available when transfer integrity confirmed.

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