Hmmm... just running them all through my head.

Martyrdom on the Seeker is quite lackluster

Gravity Mines for Vasari are kinda redundant (why slow something down when you can kill it with regular mines?)

Yeah, without stepping into economic territory, that's about it.

1. The damage has to be doubled at least to be useful, or made easier to use if possible (the delay between getting close enough and it actually taking effect is a killer).

2. The only way I could see using these would be to make them disable phase jump for several minutes at least. I.e. retreat will not be an option anytime soon if you get hit by one of these.

And sorry Darvin, didn't realize we were trying to have a game today.

Okay...let's consider both of those improvements...martyrdom damage increased from 250 to 500, and the duration of the gravity mine effect could be increased from 45s to 90s (remember, the effect stacks)...

And by the way Darvin, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you would also be playing on Sunday (I figured it would be one day or the other)...my apologies....

I'm checking up on the forums now, but I got stuff to do this afternoon so today probably won't work...

That's why we set these things up ahead of time, but you're right, a better system would be appropriate (that said, I'm available most hours on most weekends and can be pretty responsive)

Not stupid, actually...martyrdom could be set to have a larger range, and could be set to only affect structures and SBs...

Does anyone think this would be a good idea?  Seeker vessel martyrdom does more damage (500-1000) and has a greater range, but can only be used against structures and starbases...thoughts?

What do you mean revert the scout damage nerf?  You mean, make the scouts more powerful?  I really don't want to do that...we're having a hard enough time as it is balancing the armor/weapon types, I really don't want to throw in another counter to LRFs...besides, I have a conceptual problem with scouts being combat units...

DPS per fleet supply point, TEC = 1.28, Advent = 1.21, and Vasari = 1.23...so Advent actually does the least damage (but it has the most HP)...a 10% reduction in the seeker's HP would probably be good enough...

If the Advent scout is seen as too powerful, then I'd recommend reducing it's HP and shields...TEC scout has 625 total HP, Vasari is at 650, and Advent is at 825...

DPS per fleet supply point, TEC = 1.28, Advent = 1.21, and Vasari = 1.23...so Advent actually does the least damage (but it has the most HP)...a 10% reduction in the seeker's HP would probably be good enough...

Right now it is at 400 hull and 425 shields...if that was dropped to 350 hull and 375 shields, that would put it at 725 total HP (a 12% reduction)...would that be a good change?

Martyrdom could be a problem to balance...but I think if it is only allowed against structures, it would be much easier to balance...SBs have shield mitigation, so even 1000 damage would only be 400...

I'd say 20 ogrovs is a pretty solid and viable amount to build if you are going to attack a very powerful SB...that is 240 fleet supply, so you could replace those with 120 scouts...120 seekers doing 400 damage each (after mitigation) would be 48000 damage...even if the damage was buffed to only 500, that is still 24000 damage (usually enough to kill an SB outright...)

To be honest, I'm not sure if a damage buff is the way to go here...I think Syneptus (at least I think it was him) is right...the key to making this ability useful is the range...

If you built 120 scouts and you knew for certain they would hit their target, then that is 12000 damage done in a very short period of time...I'd advocate leaving the damage at 250 and simply making this ability more useful by increasing its range....I'd advocate increasing the range from 200 to 500...that is a tentative number, I'd like to do some testing to see where this is practical....

The thing about scouts is that they're also countered by flaks and fighters, so the very things pressuring LRF right now will also protect them from scouts.

What happened was in 1.19, Advent scouts took a 20% damage nerf while TEC and Vasari scouts took a 15% damage nerf.  I found this odd, because my biggest complaint was that Advent scouts had too much durability.  As you can see with your comparison, they're WAY higher than the others. 

Sort of overlooked previous suggestions to buff gravity mines...would an increase in duration from 45s to, say, 90s be good?

Well, the stacking limit was 1...with that limit, 50 seeker vessels did about the same damage as 25...which did about the same damage as 10...which was maybe 500 damage...I can understand reasoning to manipulate the ability by keeping this in place (and buffing damage) but honestly, I don't know if that's the route to go...50 of these things weren't enough to kill a lvl 1 capital ship outright (no upgrades), and that is 100 fleet supply (10 Destras)...yeah, they are cheap, but if you fail to kill your target then it is a huge waste of resources...using this ability requires a lot of dedication to amassing scouts and a lot of risk, because for every scout you build that is less resources and fleet supply you have to build a real combat ship...

50 of these things could probably guarantee a kill on a low level cap if you had a lot of support (and remember, caps are harder to kill now), but without support the ship is just going to retreat...against an SB, you'd have to have a ridiculous amount, and once you used them, you'd have virtually no fleet...since Advent have the worst economy, they are going to have the hardest time replenishing losses and building a fleet quickly...

I agree that the Kostura is overpowered...the deliverance engine is weak, but the Advent are very strong late game so I think it's probably fine...I honestly don't really know what to do with this thing though...

The damage it does is insane when stacked, but not a big deal at all when only one hits you...the fleet disablement only lasts 15s, but the structure disablement is 180s...

My feeling is, the purpose of this weapon is to allow you to blitz the targeted planet...you stun all ships and structures, and then phase jump in, giving you really nice shock power...however, I don't like the idea of this weapon being able to destroy entire fleets and planets without any other action...

If the damage that is done was simply reduced (1500 for structures and 600 for ships IIRC), it wouldn't be quite as powerful...

I suppose tweaking the stacking would also help...you could set it to prioritize old buffs, I'm not sure though if that would prevent damage being done though...

Well, I don't know what to do here...

Without changing damage, I don't know what we can do here to prevent kostura spamming from wiping out whole fleets...ships are only disabled for 15s, so if the cannon shells are 20s apart then there is pretty much nothing that can be done...

Honestly, that the kostura damages ships at all is a problem too me...the other two super weapons only affect the planet, but your fleet is unaffected...what makes the kostura overpowered is its ability to affect a whole fleet, the single most important asset that you have...

The advantages the kostura has are inherently overpowered...there are defenses and counters to the other super weapons, but there is nothing that can be done to stop a kostura except building massive amounts of repair ships, and even that doesn't work very well...something has to give, and if it isn't damage then I don't really know what else can be done...

No, that does nothing, as well-timed bombardments will kill you before the stun breaks.

The only counter is to never allow your fleet to enter a friendly gravity well (since the Kostura cannot attack neutral or enemy GW's), which means you cannot defend.

Making the Kostura only affect structures and not fleet is certainly an option.

I don't know. If your goal is to prevent Kostura spamming maybe it will work from that standpoint. But, as you have pointed out the Kostura cannon is still the most useful late game tech as it can disable structures and provide back door entry into enemy territory, you just wouldn't need as many.

Given the other Super weapons are still less viable I don't think this really solves anything. And frankly, I think spamming super weapons should be a game ending strategy. Unfortunately, the Kostura cannon is the only one that truly fulfills this role.