okay

Where did I insult their game? I pointed out that there were no balance changes for over a month, which given the state of balance is... a sin.

I pointed out flaws in balance and proposed solutions. Thread was constructive. If devs can't take criticism, there's no point for me to be here.

And if they were referring to "Guide", that thread was joke in it's entirety. If anyone treated it seriously, it's his own fault.

always though yarlen was actually amused at mecha not insulted.

So stop posting.  Ironclad probably had other priorites before release, such as ironing out remaining bugs, crashes and desynchs.  They responding to you immediately and said they're working on a balance patch.  You continued to QQ and insult.  Multiplayer is not the 99% of Sins, you're the 1%.  Insuring single player is working flawlessly for release is more important than your 5v5 balance issues.

It was you guys that said that the VR were even more OP than the VL and despite not being nerfed much, they were the only ones that were.  This wasn't a balance patch.  The only real balance items were Starbase Mobilization getting pushed back (doesn't help late-game, but at least it stops it from being rushed so easily), Enslaved Labor getting removed from the VR (honestly, I think this will actually neft the VR quite a bit, but maybe that's just me), and Subjugating Assault getting buffed.

This patch was all about stability and stomping out bugs and probably more importantly, desyncs.  You may say that the game is unplayable due to balance (and I'm inclined to agree with you; it is still quite bad), but the fact is, they did try to throw you guys a bone here.  They buffed the weakest faction and nerfed the strongest.  You can debate how much and how effective it was, but it sounds like those things were more attempts to try to do something to show that they do care.  Their huge time investment was stability.  If their game isn't stable upon release that reflects worse on them in the long run than balance problems.

If you want to leave after 1.02, I'd say go ahead, but I think you should understand that just because they aren't focusing on balance doesn't mean they didn't improve the experience.  MP went from actually unplayable (due to the combination of minidumps and desyncs) to effectively unplayable.  You can finish games much more easily now than before and that's the point.  Sure, you still have the balance problems, but that wasn't the focus of this patch.

For now, I'd suggest waiting to see what happens when the developers focus their effort behind balancing the three races as opposed to fixing the game.

I said I'm leaving forum. As for Sins, I'm not playing until patch, then we'll see. If balance will be still bad I'll probably leave. I already applied for Novus Aeterno beta, that game looks very promising.

That's coders job. Don't tell me coders do the balancing.

Yarlen didn't lock it, Brad did...hardly surprising....

Odds are Yarlen, Kyro or Brad will post in this thread with something like "We don't want you here anyways" and then lock it...poor Greg, he actually makes legit posts that are probably ignored...

It is true that SP is the base for Stardock, but you are fooling yourself if you don't think balance affects singleplayer...

Some of the MP guys act like asshats at times...but I have found that many in the SP community are no better...they are just as arrogant, egocentric (devs should only care about SP or MP), and insulting...

The only 2 differences are:

1. The MP guys actually know the game and know what the are talking about
2. The SP guys only insult the MP crowd (the "ones who deserve it") and not the devs

What does this mean?  The devs ignore the people who know what they're talking about solely because of their tone...I understand that lacking tact often leads to you being ignored, and I'm not saying the MP guys are justified in their conduct...but dear god some of you act like they are the devil incarnate...furthermore, I continually see forum members dismissing the suggestions of those like Mecha because, well, Mecha is mean and I don't like him so obviously no one should listen to his ideas...

This us versus them mentality is bullshit....it is taxing, and it is killing the community...my greatest fear is that this community will evolve into an epic example of group think...all the experienced guys will be told to shut up, and the only "feedback" the devs will get is fanboy raving and loving which, while it may make the devs feel good, does not do a damn thing to improve the game....

If everyone took on the diplomatic tone of volt i dare say we'd have less issues. I agree with a lot of things the mp say on balance (i do read the forums a lot) but its how they go about it is what frustrates me. Like its not that hard to be polite... even to inexperienced "noobs" with their not so good ideas for balance.

I have not been to this forum for ages, have not seen any previous posts by Mecha-Lenin, but the tone of his OP makes me feel like disregarding any balance suggestion he ever makes.

Thats just it though, how is their 'balancing' ideas, any better than someone who is not at that ICO 'pro' level?

Just b/c they play on the majority a single game mode, does not make them the end all be all of what is balanced.

My thoughts are just as vaild as theirs, Ive played MP, Ive done SP, Ive done modding. Why are my thoughts instantly dimissed by them b/c Im not one of them? Why is anyone opinions dismissed by them for that reason?

They are quick to blast anyone but themselfs, causing drama that plagues this forum. As Ive said for years now, Its their attitude both in game, on ICO, and on the forums that is root to alot of their issues with low player counts online. 

We matter no more than they do in the big picture. Its the fact we are treated as second class players b/c of our choice ot play SP or mostly against the AI.

But our thoughts on any balance changes and addtions to the game, etc etc are as worthy as any MP players comment.

All this besides the point, b/c if I was the dev, I ignore all of us. After all its their game. If we dont like it, we can not play it or mod it.

On a related note, If the 'pro' group was so worried about balance and didnt think IC can balance it. Make a MOD! Since the ICO numbers are small, you should have no problem getting the balance mod to be popular.

There have been many games that have seen a community mod become the standard.

Blargh, Im getting on a soapbox. 

TL;DR:

There is no one group in the community who opinions on the game are greater than the other. Everyone brings the exact same level of thoughts to the table. And in the end, its the Devs choice. So deal with it.

Why the fuck is everyone here so mad lately? Just grab yourselves a beer and forget about your sins for a bit (drinking beer isn't a sin, is it?).

Players are playing their game. They have a vision for it, that is the bottom line. 

Bad business is to diverge from the scope of your vision/game to please people. As it has shown, sticking to their ideology for this game works.

You have a baseline balance, right now. Its it something alot of people agree with? Sure doesnt look like it. That doesnt mean the baseline is not there.

Even if they tweak this or that...its never gonna appeal to everyone. Hence my statement. Take what is given to you, tweak it to your standards and enjoy. Why this is unacceptable to people I do not get. If your vision for the game differs from what the Devs have provided. You have been given a grand opportunity to make the game experience yours. Take it people! Only good things can come from it.