Since I've played with Sin online, I know how he actually plays and what strategies he actually uses...what he "advices" on the forums and what he actually does on ICO are not always the same...
Seleuceia, you need to stop making crap up. Your trolling is getting more and more pathetic these days. I have *never* played or seen you online, much less displayed what "strategies" I use to you... In fact, NOBODY that I have ever talked to has ever seen you on ICO 5s lobby. Stop pretending like you are some bigshot tier 1 player when you are clearly not... None of the skilled even knows who you are, except uncrustable, who seems to be feeling sorry for you and pretends to go along with your crazy conspiracy theories... that or he actually enjoys your comp stomps...
I challenge Seleuceia to upload this "replay" where I displayed my "strategies" to him; he can't, because they don't exist...
Almost everyone who has seen me in a multiplayer match knows that I frequently follow my own advice, whether it be from expanding with scouts ships or starving out vasari with culture instead of brute-forcing them.
Marza and Akkan are the traditional "safe" choices, don't think I need to defend their viability or success...
How do expect me to take you seriously if you don't even defend your own argument? I even agree with your statement that marza is a great cap but to make assumptions based upon "conventional wisdom" (whatever that is) is intellectually lazy at best and morally dubious at worst.
Corsev is also a pretty solid lead, dem teams really forces your enemy to constantly be on their toes and is really good at winning fleet battles...at lvl 2 (so lvl 3 cap), the damage from dem teams is severe and unless your enemy runs their fleet or has some AM depleting ability, they are in bad shape...only downside of the corsev is that it requires good micro...it's a high risk, high reward strategy, if you land a good dem teams you pretty much win your front, but if you don't then you are kind of screwed as the akkan and marza are better at colonizing and sieging...
I agree that the Corsev Battlecruiser can be a powerful cap, but only against new players. Once you fall for dem teams for a few times, its not that hard to figure out the technique to counter it. All you have to do is split your light frigate fleet into groups of 10 (enabling stacking helps greatly with this) and position them in a circle around your opponents fleet. Now if he tries to use DT, he will only be doing damage to 10 or less of yours ships at a time, making the AOE moot. Plus, akkan and marza have game-changing ultimates, while the corsev's is a sad excuse for even a frigate ability.
Dunov is great...EMP is actually a really good AoE, especially against Advent, and also counters troublesome cap abilities...about the only downside of this ship is that you need both magnetize and EMP to safely counter problematic abilities (unlike DA or disruptive strikes which are standalone)...with good micro though it is an excellent ship...dunov also doesn't contribute anything to dealing with Orkies...
You are dead wrong with this part, and I will explain why. You do not need both magnetize and EMP to counter capital ships, far from it. The latter disables ALL cap abilites for 15 seconds and comes with an amazing cooldown of 15 seconds. That means you can continually chain-spam this powerful ability, making that troublesome marza or kol all but useless. And I'm not surprised that you believe dunov doesn't contribute anything in killing orkies. The AI in this game is very stupid, and that means it won't build mass strikecraft fleets. Human players know better. When the vasari player brings in his supporting fleet of fighters and bombers, all you have to do is cast magnetize on the SB, and watch as the strikecraft kamikaze themselves into it, dealing tremendous damage and easily leveling your own capital ship.
Sova is okay, it really depends on the situation though and how your opponent plays...the SC and the missile batteries give you more raw firepower than any other ship, but that may or may not be useful depending on how dynamic your front is...if you are constantly moving around, the missile batteries are useless...if however there are lots of times where your cap is planted and being attacked (like when bombing a planet or defending factories), then the raw firepower gives you a nice advantage...one of the few capital ships you can actually do a double cap start with, though you probably will do better with the other choices...
Sova is what I like to call a DBBD (don't build before dunov). The days of embargo rushing are long over. Attempting to do that strat will get you killed in less than 10 minutes (have seen it happen to KoK... oh wait you don't even know who that is). That disaster of an ability does not compensate for the only saving grace of the Sova, the missile platform. However, true to its nickname, when it is coupled with the dunov, it quickly becomes one of the most powerful capitals in the entire game. Flux field allows for a relentless spam of missile platforms, potentially increasing DPS by 176%. The decreased cooldown of the sova's ultimate increases the already fearsome TEC production by a factor of 4, swarming the poor advent player with a steady stream of flak ships. Truly one of the most powerful synergies in the game...
Radiance is good for preventing your opponent from using their cap, but that's it...it doesn't really give you a lot of firepower and it doesn't really help win fleet battles...it is the cliché "one trick pony" that puts each side on equal footing...if your opponent leads with a colony cap, they will have an advantage in eco and you won't really have any combat advantage over them (they can't use fleet winning abilities and you don't have any)...a risky lead that sometimes pays off big but usually doesn't make things any better or worse for you...
Stop trolling. Ever heard of the Cleansing Brilliance+Malice combo? It can destroy every frigate and cruiser in the game in less than 5 seconds (more powerful than missile barrage). It can even seriously damage the most powerful titan in the game, the Ragnorav. I personally find detonate antimatter to be tremendously useful in draining AM from ships that heavy rely on it (like the VR and TL). Then again, seeing how the AI doesn't really build titans in singleplayer, I can see why you think radiance is a "one trick pony"...
Halcyon is solid, lots of raw firepower and a decent buff to fleet damage...also doesn't depend on AM to be useful in the early game...like the sova, it is one of the few ships where a double cap start is viable, though still not suggested....main weakness is that it has poor planet bombing...it's good, but the prog is better at winning fleet battles if your enemy isn't depleting AM and the prog can colonize....
Lol. Halcyon is not viable at any stage of the match except for late game. Its low health allows it to be sniped extremely easily by even a small light frigate force. And who cares if it has poor planet bombing? You shouldn't be using advent caps to bomb planets anyway considering how important fleet synergy is to the race as a whole... plus the fact that they get siege frigates at tier 1 unlike other factions makes your point irrelevant...
Discordia helps win fleet battles, and is better than many ships in that regard...however, the AM cost of its abilities is a killer and it just doesn't win battles as well as the prog does...plus, it doesn't colonize...the only thing this ship really has going for it is that it can disable and interrupt abilities...Radiance is better at handling abilities though since it also depletes AM, and prog is better at winning fleet battles...discordia is kind of in an awkward middle spot of meh...there was a time where Discordia leads were the new fad, but they aren't common now....
I actually agree with this.
Revelation is like the Radiance...it is great at disabling a cap, but that's it, it doesn't do anything to win the fleet battle...it has the advantage that unlike DA, reverie makes the annoying cap easier to kill...however, it doesn't prevent ability usage quite as soundly since it doesn't deplete AM...unless you are constantly microing, instant action abilities like malice are still going to get used by your enemy, albeit not as much...another risky lead that might payoff huge but most likely won't be all that helpful...
Uhh what? Clairvoyance allows invaluable scouting without resorting to seeker vessels, which prevents free exp from going to your opponents cap. This is even more important when it reaches the mid-game because you don't want ANY exp going to your opponents titan or cap, lest it reaches level 6 and proceeds to steamroll you. Guidance makes the devasating advent synergy even more powerful, allowing for repeated spamming of hallucination and matyrdom. You also forget that Reverie resets the enemy caps' accleration and speed, forcing him to start again from a crawl. It even disables them mid-phase jump, a death-sentence for any fleeing cap.
Personally I would take a prog over any of these...malice is an awesome AoE, colonizing is always nice, and shield regen allows you to counter orkies as well as missile barrage...that's just a killer package that is hard to beat...
Agree about malice, but shield regen is one of the shittest abilites in the game. It requires 100(!!!) antimatter on a continually AM deprived ship. And why did this nonsense about SR countering missile barrage come from? By the time the prog reaches the equivalent level of a marza with MB (level 6), it has three level in malice and one level in each of the three remaining abilites. That means the level 1 SR only regenerates 37.5 shields/second for 8 seconds (300 shields in total). Compare this to the 3000 damage of MB (25 waves plus 120 for each=3000) and you see why I have a hard time thinking you're not a troll. The prog also has the worst colonization bonus in the game. While the akkan constructs three free extractor,s and the egg allows for rapid construction of structures, the prog only reduces development costs but 15%, a marginally useful ability.
Vasari have the least amount of good options...egg is really the best, being able to colonize is essential to most Orky rushes and nano-disassembler is important for driving away caps that can still take the brunt of an Orky...nano also helps counter orky rushes itself...
The egg IMO is a super overrated ship. If you break it down, only one of its non-colonize abilities is even remotely useful in a competitive MP game (gravity warhead). GW allows you to trap enemy capitals inside a grav-well indefinitely. When combined with OP phase missiles bombers, the opponent might as well scuttle it before it gives free exp. Nano-disassembler is ok for the first 5 minutes but beyond that, its damage pales in comparison to the ones you're doing with bombers. Drain planet is what I like to call a gimmic ability, considering how difficult it is to level the egg to 6.
That being said, Rankulases do get their time to shine every now and then...personally I think it is more a fad, but they do support Orky rushes decently well...some maps, the Ranky might be just as good as the egg, but I think the egg is more dependable and a better long term investment due to the full set of abilities it has...
1. *Reads Sel post about how the Rankulas is a good ship*
2. Goes to 1st page of rebellion forum, finds topic called "Rankulas is the worst piece of garbage in the game"
3. Finds 99% of the responses agree with the title
4. Shakes head at being trolled by Seleuceia again
Skirantras are cool, support Orky rushing nicely, but it seems that the colonizing ability of the egg is more successful than having repair aura...most times it seems that the key to the Orky rush is colonizing the planet ASAP and getting a repair bay rather than relying on nanite units or repair aura to keep the orky alive...since the egg can colonize and can bomb faster than the skirantra, it seems to compliment Orky rushing better...
Kortul is a great ship, but not a real great lead...it's not that its abilities are bad, it's just that it's main strengths don't really compliment Orky rushing....the whole Vasari early game doesn't require fleet winning abilities nor does it require countering fleet winning abilities....it also generally doesn't put pressure on keeping your cap alive since the SB is the main focus for your enemy...a decent long term investment since the ship is soooo good late game, but you are probably better off picking a ship that compliments the Orky strategy...
Is this a joke? Skirantra is universally regarded as the best capital ship in the game. Don't believe me? Look up the tons of old threads in the strategy sub-forum. 75% of them are complaining about how OP the thing is. Repair clouds makes your own orky rushes unstoppable and scramble bombers makes opposing orky rushes impossible. Not to mention microphasing aura transforms vasari strikecraft from the most powerful unit in the game to the only unit you should build in the game. It just makes bombers unkillable, I wish stardock would nerf it
Ad when did I say Kortul was a great lead? Stop misconstruing and twisting my words. It is not only intellectually dishonest but it also doesn't help in maintaining your credibility... which is sorely lacking these days.
And do you guys ever find it amusing that whenever Seleuceia replys, he decides to ignore 99% of my post and instead only focuses on one or two lines? And even those are usually taken out of context! This is because he has no response when my posts continually expose his BS with cold hard facts. Seleuceia deals in the world of opinion, making him a master spin doctor. He can twist a statistic that runs contrary to his position into supporting his position. I think he has a promising future employment at one of the major banks...
The reason the colony caps all make my list is not because they are better than other caps, but because they offer the most strategic flexibility at the start of the game making them the best "safe" option. Being able to rapidly colonize, or colonize a contested system is invaluable at the start of the game. They are also all very useful ships besides their colonization ability. The one exception is the Marza, which offers a huge advantage to an offensive style tactical player with the ability to raze planets and eventually missile barrage. Instead of colonizing a contested world, the Marza just makes sure no one gets it, so it works.
Other capital ships may be superior for specific strategies or gameplay styles. They may in fact be great for "killer strategies" like Skirantra + Orky rushing, but they are a less flexible overall if your strategy isn't playing out and can be highly situational to your start position in a 5v5. The colony caps are all solid choices for any start, as is the Marza which has great firepower to chew up frigates on its way to being a huge threat at level 6.
I appreciate this informative and respectful reply. Not only is Cykur one of the all-time SOASE legends, but he backs up his opinions with actual facts and real experience. Major kudos to him.
LOL
I'm not even on the steam forums...I actually looked to see, there is no Seleuceia on them...
You're right, there is no Seleuceia on the steam forums... but Ryat (Aka your other account) certainly is... Do you really think I'm as stupid as the rest of them?
The Marza, the only cap Sin leads with on ICO, and he forgets it....HOW CONVENIENT....
You got me. I confess that the marza is the only cap I ever lead with on ICO...
but sometimes I do lead with dunov...
and Sova...
and Radiance...
and Progneitor...
and Revelation...
and Skirantra...
and Jarrusal...
and Kortul...
and even a little Corsev every now and then...
HOW CONVENIENT that Seleuceia forgets the fact I lead with a variety of different caps...
Oh wait, I forgot, he doesn't play on ICO, which means he just made that marza crap up...
Who are you kidding???? There are no women on these forums...........
Projection much?
By this point Seleuceia/Ryat, I will let your body of work speak for itself...
CASE CLOSED
