3)  flexible

4)  working as designed

I agree that Micro Sucks, but I disagree on the fix.  You want to dumb away the micro by removing the decisions.  I want a full script language to write my own automation.  Neither of us are going to get what we want

You've got 10 manufacturing buildings with incredible adjacency bonuses and 4 research buildings without such bonuses.

No matter how hard you try, those 4 buildings aren't going to produce more than the 10 manufacturing buildings.  If you were to have it the other way around - 10 research with fantastic bonuses, you'd get a LOT more research than the manufacturing -> research project.

It makes sense; that's not a research world, it's a manufacturing world.  Even with production being wasted via the inefficiency of converting manufacturing -> research, you'll still pump out a lot more production through your manufacturing buildings than your research buildings.  Just because there are so many - and so perfectly placed, your research buildings can't even pretend to keep up.  If that makes any sense...do you understand what I'm saying? (I ask because I don't always explain things well!)

i understand why this is happening, i understand the system. however, i think it is bad because it is:

-unintuitive

-too complicated

-too flexible (sliders and manufacturing conversion make specialization not a long term development commitment, just change a slider)

-micromanagement intensive (each planet has it's own slider setting to gain maximum effectiveness)

the reason why i got some research and the research project is that i don't need that much production. i can pump out any ship in 1 turn and because you can not build multiple ships per turn the production is pointless. having said that i don't need the research either for the same reason, you can only finish a tech a turn and i don't need the money because i get enough already. You should also take in account multiple bonuses from starbases, e.g. if you have research and manufacturing bonuses from starbases they apply twice if you convert manufacture to research but only once when you just set the slider to research.

imho there are two ways about this:

1) a balance discussion about the flexibility/balance of manufacturing, e.g.:

Manufacturing focus is too strong, because even if pure specialization planets (e.g. only research facilities on a planet yield more research) is better than a manufacturing focus, the manufacturing focus is way more flexible as you can switch to money/research/ship/building production on a whim.

-or, since this is early in the beta

2) a fundamental system discussion. do we even want such a system.

Just an example of the micromanagement hell this system implies. say you have all your worlds ideally set up where the production/money/research slider is set to it's optimum for each world. any technology or star base that grants a bonus to either research/manufacturing or money implies to readjust the sliders for each world. If you have 10+ worlds and get a new starbase with a research relic you can spend the next minutes min/maxing those sliders. to me this is not fun.

I think the easiest fix for this is to raise the efficiency of the projects from 1/4 to 1/2 or 1/3, but not have the output of the project modified by science or economy buildings or space station modules. In the current system, at a certain point a mixed manufacturing/science world running research project will out perform a pure science world running 100% science.

I don't think the projects themselves are modified by research/economic buildings.  I believe (I'm no expert, just a casual observer!! I'm just thinking out loud here!) the system works by allocating your something like this:

100% Production is split, via the economy wheel, into Manufacturing (M), Research (R), and Wealth (W).

And research, with a project, would be calculated like (my guess):

(M*Bonuses)*(0.725) = Project Points

Project Points + (R*Bonuses) = Total Research

So if you are split 50% M, 50 %R, and 0% W, your production will be evenly split between P and R, modified by all your bonuses (buildings, civ, tecjh, planet, etc.) for each.  At that point, your research is added straight to your total.  If you're running a research project, that project generates research equal to (based on above screenshots) 72.5% of your total manufacturing, which is then added to the total research.

I could be completely wrong.

If manufacturing numbers are so high that 72.5% of a max manufacturing planet is doing more research than a max research world, some tweaking needs to be done. (that would mean manufacturing buildings are nearly 40% stronger, ultimately, than equal-tech-level research buildings)  But that's what Beta is for.  They are still not even close to done with balance issues, as much of that will need be done in the "polish" phase of development.

it was in an earlier beta im not sure if they have changed it but they said it was intentional then

Here is the math on how the research project work: they take your manufacturing output, divide it by 4, then run it through all your research or economic bonuses. Here are some of the ramifications:

The break-even point is +300% manufacturing. Until then, you are better off using your slider. At exactly +300% manufacturing, setting the slider to 100% science is the same as 100% manufacturing with the research project. Above +300% manufacturing you are better off using projects than the slider.

Assuming you could get the same research bonuses by replacing your manufacturing buildings with research buildings, early and mid game a research planet will out preform a manufacturing planet doing a project, but the manufacturing planet has the ability to produce manufacturing, research, or credits depending on your needs. Late game however, a planet with partial manufacturing and partial research can out perform a pure research planet.

Here are some idealized numbers run through the actual formulas. Note: For this exercise I am assuming that you would get the same bonuses by replacing research buildings with manufacturing buildings and visa-versa. In the real game it will usually play out more in favor split-type planets due to one-per planet buildings and starbase modules.

Planet 1: 100 production, total possible bonuses +600%

+600% manufacturing using research project: 175 research

+300% manufacturing, +300% research using research project: 400 research

+600% research using slider at 100% research: 700 research

Planet 2: 100 production, total possible bonuses +1000%

+1000% manufacturing using research project: 275 research

+500% manufacturing, +500% research using research project: 900 research

+1000% research using slider at 100% research: 1100 research

Planet 3: 100 production, total possible bonuses +1400%

+1400% manufacturing using research project: 375 research

+700% manufacturing, +700% research using research project: 1600 research

+1400% research using slider at 100% research: 1500 research

Stray idea:

Add a "migration lag" to the triangle slider.

This prevents shifting your entire economy around on a dime and adds strategic depth. It would take a certain number of turns to get the slider from where it is to where you would like it to be. More change = more time. It would automatically move a bit towards your target spot each turn until it finally gets there.

When I first saw projects back in the alpha, I thought that they were a tool to shift spending, not as a tool to direct manufacturing to some other goal. Run out of planet improvements to build? Then use a project to shift production to research. Research some techs required to upgrade your planet improvements, then the project is put to the end of the list and the planet starts building once more. I was disappointed later when I started checking the numbers and they weren't adding up.

In many ways, I was looking for a tool to shift production from research or economics towards manufacturing to develop planet improvements. Projects appeared to do the opposite, but it looked like it would get the results that I wanted. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

that would require reducing the production of each planet by about 90% and multiplying maintinance costs by a factor of 10 or more

@Empress_Fujiko

that is mostly an issue with non-scaling tech costs regarding the map type. if you play on smaller maps or with less planets than the game is more strategic. as soon as you get 15+ planets the technology progression is just choosing a new tech every turn (sometimes two turns). needles to say this is not just an issue between large and small empires but also between map sizes and settings.

you don't need sliders to specialize planets. sliders provide flexibility (currently too much imho). For example in ciV there are not sliders yet you can specialize cities depending what improvements and buildings you construct. it could be argued that the citizen assignment is a form of sliders (in the later stages of the game), but in general the system is much easier to grasp and much less prone to constant readjustments. in galciv3 when i unlock a tech that gives an economic bonus i have to readjust a ton of worlds to their new optimum.

i certainly agree with you that planet specialization was not sufficient in galciv2.