Flak...don't...counter...bombers. Flak are purely anti-fighters. Flak do anti-very light damage. Don't get me wrong. Flak will kill off bombers...slowly and eventually.

What's happened is you finally actually have to make a large enough group of flak to counter enemy fighters.

So since the new Advent carrier has 20 slots, that means you need probably 15-20 slots of flak, meaning about 4-5 TEC/Advent flak, 3-4 Vasari flak.

The real counter to fighters/bombers is to make light frigates to chase down the carrier.

What? Fighters do anti-light damage and bombers have light armor. Sounds to me like the counter to bombers is more fighters.

Fighters eat bombers.

The counter chain is something like:
Flak -> Fighters -> Bombers -> HC -> LRF / Flak / Light -> Carriers

In other words if your enemy has lots of bombers, use fighters and light frigates.

Also, don't get me wrong. I love the new carriers..er when they fix em anyways. Fighter bomber opps is the part I love the most. However the reason I started this thread was to help define the new role for flak/dv/sent.

I've noticed that the flaks aren't denting
my strike craft squadrons too much
note that the light frigates have gotten a buff against the flaks
and also flaks base damage has also been reduced as noted in the change log

while i'm not sure if these are having a profound impact in the game
i've noticed that i'm not at all worried about my cruiser's attack capabilities
against the flaks in pirate fleets anymore.
they just don't seem to be worrisome at all

I agree.

Flak was nerfed way too heavily. It is useless now.

the problem with flak is why make a unit that only counters strikecraft? Strikecraft are regenerated freely for antimatter. Destroying fighters doesn't hurt you opponent at all because he can just remake them.

I don'tk now what the answer is, but a guess on my part would be to give the carrier "very light" armor too. The counter would be flak and flak would actually have a use.

Or, give flak a better damage multiplier against very light armor, so they're detrimental to fighters, not just a soft counter.

First of all I must say I'm happy with the balance as stands LF vs LC. It works.
==Flak==
How about taking flak back to almost 1.05 with an increased fleet supply and cost. Lf actually counters flak now so this may work as well. It also makes you manage your SC. Which is good because it engages you. Adds more strategy to fleet engagements.

@jsw
Its your battle tactics that achieve your strategic goals. Since you want to be technical and not read between the lines a bit..hehe. The ai does a great job of managing SC. Now for those of us who like to get that extra punch in a battle when and where it's needed. We manage our SC. Its fun and adds depth to the tactics employed in battle. Sorry for those who just want to point click say fight and watch. You can do that vs Ai. It doesn't counter moves or fight back in a human way. It just fights to a preprogrammed point and quits or dies. Humans we get pissed and fight harder or get demoralized and quit. This game is kinda stressful sometimes but so is poker. When you you win or lose you sorta get the same kinda rush. Be it they may feel different.
Back on topic.
Flak: What do we want from flak?

I'd have to agree that fighters are too effective against ships. I think they should be needed to counter bombers and perhaps be able to clean up scout ships but the idea that the fighters can destroy cap ships when spammed doesn't make a lot of sense. Bombers, OTOH, should definitely be scary to fleets and therefore would be used much more than fighters for engagements against fleets. Then the fighters become necessary to counter, etc.

Fighters (and by extension, carriers) just upset the overall balance too much, IMHO.

I agree with Howdidudothat and VARoadstter for two reasons.

a) this is the kind of kill relation we have come to expect from sci fi. look at space shooters like freespace or x-wing etc. fighters dont kill big ships. in fact they dont even make a dent (I spent 15 minutes trying to kill a damaged shivan corvette once because I just wanted that kill). bombers do. thats about the only thing they do. they are a tad slower, less agile, but heavier and have the bigger guns. period.

there is an option to keep strikecraft docked. so, this could in effect become a pretty nice strategy. knowing you have several squads of bombers that could shred the enemy fleet apart, but first you need other ships to take down enemy fighters and flaks. maybe keep fighters undocked but close by for defensive action. then, if you manage to knock out enough enemy anti strike craft capacity, you can send them on their nasty mission.

maybe a nerf on another point might be interesting as well. maybe it should take more antimatter to replace strikecraft, so they are still a powerful unit, but not so much of a throwayay unit. currently, you can send them in because they get replaced reasonably fast. if you keep them as powerful as they are, but with a much longer rebuild time, this could make for a very different, and much more exciting balance. and its a very soft change, compared to some voiced who suggested resource cost for strike craft similar to sc carriers.