i don't know of any tech that prevents and ship or installation from shooting anything. it's just the new types of ships and buildings that cannot be constructed anymore which makes perfect sense. as far as I know all your present ships and structures keep all updates, hull, shields, weapons and abilities even if you lose that tech-tree. you just can't rebuild them until you get your labs back.
doesn't matter what you try. when the enemy jumps in with 30 or more carriers you're starbase and any hangar or flak defending it will be toast. even with 20 carriers you will have a very hard job keeping it alive unless you get some real backup fleet there quickly.
you shouldn't use the egg alone for attacking the starbase or at least give it some overseers to back it up. the disintegration comes in very handy when attacking starbases since it negates their very high armor.
I have the exact same issue and can reproduce it every time with the same save game. in my game the constructor is beeing attacked and hit by fighters the exact second he wants to build the starbase.
[quote who="DeadlyShoe" reply="20" id="2052349"]That's not a fair comparison, really. You brought guardians and a progenitor with the illuminators but not the adjudicators? I mean, that's like 20000 regenerating shield points stacked on top of em. And the poor adjudicators dont even get flaks...[/quote] i did this because of equal ressources. if i gave the adjudicators guardians and flaks i would have to reduce them to 10-15 which wouldn't d
you're wrong. losing techs when you lose the needed research facilities makes perfect sense. otherwise you could just research all you need and then get rid of the structures . or use it as a tactical advantage when you attack your enemy, quickly shoot down his labs so he cannot rebuild his fleet. secondly focus fireing is generally not a good thing. search the forums for shield migration and you know what I mean.
two fully upgraded starbases fighting each other. the TEC one totally owned the vasari starbase without losing more than 20% shields [e digicons]:cylon:[/e] my unnoticable small tec fleet waiting for action while a friendly vasari buddy is passing by [e digicons]:grin:[/e] <img src="http://www.purebytes.de/stuff/sins/beta/tec_fleet1.jpg"
the entrenchment beta 2.5 handles late game and big fleets way better than the last patches. it's true that sins only uses 1 core and it's a engine limitation that probably will never change. hopefully we will see a sins 2 with full multithread-support next year or whenever ;) meanwhile there are still a lot of memory and code optimizations that can be done to improve the current engine and IC knows about this.
made just 2 new tests and it doesn't look good for the adjudicators. all ships had weapons tech up to tier 5, starbase had full tech, 2 weapons, 2 hull, 2 fighter and 2 random other upgrades i didn't see. 1st fleet consisting of 3x capitals lvl 10, 30x illuminators, 10x guardians and 10x subjugators fleet won with not even a scratch on it ;) 2nd fleet consisting of 1 lvl 10 progenitor, 40 illuminators and 10 guardians fleet
and i'm just saying you're comparing two different things, a starbase is just not a structure like e.g. a military lab ;) as i recall it in beta 1 the starbase would be build instantly on the spot where the constructor-ship was at that moment. at some point for some reason that was changed to the current system. my guess it was because of the space requirements of the starbase not beeing checked correctly with the old method.
the difference here is that the starbase is not a structure and placing it is an ability, you're not building something for the planet but more like a special ship type. yes you can stop structures from beeing build and get your money back. but if you lose your planet before they could be build you will lose all your ressources.
there is a flaw in your thinking. if you're money gets reduced right when you click there is still a chance your constructor gets destroyed or disabled on the way to his building position. so in that case the game has to refund you which I think is currently not what the engine can do without some changes to the code. i like the way it currently is, it also remembers your order so as soon as you got the cash your base gets build even if it takes 2 hours
I had only time for 1 test so far. took 60 illuminators - no tech upgrades - no other ships vs. 1 fully upgraded and researched TEC starbase. I lost but the starbase had only 1500 HP and 0 shields left so it was a close call. gonna try with 10 guardians and TIER 3 armor / weapon / shield upgrade tomorrow - that base is toast for sure ;)
but with the upgraded vortex the starbase would smoke any adjudicator fleet for sure, but yes i was planning on going with 2x weapon, 4x hull and 2x shield upgrade. that is maximum possible defense and we'll see what happens. of course I will try the 20x Adjudicator too, even micromanage them out of range ;)
ah yes, then my first calculation with 18 dps was correct. still way more damage than those Adjudicator and of course more flexible. i'll give it a shot and try my cap + 50 illus + 10 guardians on 1 fully upgraded vasari starbase. and then of course 60 illus alone and see how many die ;)
it's a known bug from beta 2 where adjudicatos won't do anything after you save and reload a game. no idea if it is fixed in 2.5. we'd have to make a new game with 2.5 to be sure.
the problem is that the starbase won't live long enough to make a big dent in that 60 illu fleet. the illu has front bank damgage of 53.5 meaning the starbase will be hit with 3210 dps! not counting in any weapon upgrades you will certainly have by that point. even if you calculate in shield migration, regeneration and repair of the starbase it will be shot down in less than 30 seconds, no way it can shoot down ANY ship in that time.
the vasari kostura cannon will not damage starbases at all, no idea if it is a bug or intended. on my latest test game I fired 8 of these babies in 1 minute while attacking, about 90% of all structures [b]and[/b] the defending fleet except capitals and the starbase were vaporized. of course that doesn't compare much to TEC who could easily obliterate your whole empire with 8 superweapons on a medium sized map. but really, I played about 6
I agree! it became much more smooth in late game now even tho I pump up the speed to 2x or 4x with a 2300 vasari fleet and 4 hard AIs. with the old game at this point even my 3.6 GHz E8400 couldn't handle it anymore but now it's getting better and better with every patch. of course i'm still dreaming of real multithread support for one of the next expansions coming up ;)
sending the cap ship in first is a good tactic indeed, never thought of it really. but you really need the healers... uhm I mean regeneration-ships to back it up or the starbase will blow it to pieces quickly ;)
I don't think so. lets take a fully upgraded starbase with both weapons and hull upgrade. if you want to make it fast you would take 20 Adjudicators that will cost you: - credits 22000 / metal 4200 / crystal 2700 - 360 fleet supply and you get: + 500 average dps on 5 targets + hull 17200 / shields 9800 + stay out of range - can only engage buildings - base armor 1 now the same calcula
just tested the new changes in beta 2.5 with the phasegates on starbases. the ability now needs 150 antimatter but the upgrade does not provide any. so you have to research and upgrade either vortex or shield to be able to use the phase gate and sacrifice one of those abilites at the same time. the ability should give at least 150 antimatter as the others do. very easy to fix I think but crucial to gameplay ;)
testet with beta 2.5 and the bug is still there. this bug probably applies to advent mine-layers as well but i have not testet this yet. copy & edited from this thread when using the vasari ruiner to lay mines in a long queue it will not stop after 150 mines, still sucking up money but not placing any mines. example: with a lot of ressources in my pockets I put the ship on a long queue all around
it really depends on the game and map. all games i've played so far as vasari on the beta i've never ever build any phase gates because starbases can do that now and don't take up any tactical slots. by the time i got returning armada my fleet is usually huge and i have enough ressources to build up the 2300 supply. for the time beeing i must say phase gates are useless now. i have not tested the latest changes in beta 2.5 yet, we'll see.
Solanus Adjudicator Cost changed from 1000/250/125 to 1100/210/135. Front bank damage reduced 50%. Max number of targets in front bank reduced from 6 to 5. Max hull points increased from 680 to 860. Max shield points increased from 375 to 490. Armor reduced from 3 to 1. so this is quite a nerf and I just played an advent and testing it out. horrible! for the money of just 1 I could
